Jump to content


Photo

Blue Ribbon maintenance ?


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 The Krackheads

The Krackheads

    Advanced Contributor

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 864 posts

Posted 03 January 2018 - 05:40 PM

I understand we have a new trail steward and new park manager for CW. Welcome to both.

 

Self-servingly, What would it take to have a meeting with the above and Glenn Meyer and discuss some maintenance days for Blue Ribbon in 2018?  While a total trail redo would be nice it isn't feasible, How about a redesign of the S turns leading (going CW) up to the steep climb by the stables? The entire trail leading up to the base of the climb is a rutted out/gullied mess and has been since 93.  I have been walking the area and think I have a fun and sustainable route for the area, It would be about a 300 yard re route.

 

Thoughts, input, feelings?


Volunteers do not necessarily have the time; they just have the heart. ~Elizabeth Andrew

 

 

Bluffview/Rock Hollow Co-Trail Steward

 

 


#2 Craig

Craig

    Advanced Contributor

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,585 posts

Posted 04 January 2018 - 06:34 AM

A) I may get the verbiage wrong, but as I understand the ruling, the edict to "not add anything new" at Missouri's State Parks includes new trail.  Including reroutes.  Maintenance is OK, but reroutes/new trail must be approved by the State rep (a level or two above our local Park Super).

 

B) Several (4? 5?) years ago, Ryan, Bryan, Kirby, myself, etc spent a couple hours scouting the entire property, while pondering the possibilities of building more sustainable trail.  I'll see if one of them remember the details of what we thought was possible.  


Craig Seibert, GORC Board Member

GORC/St. Charles County Parks Liaison


#3 rmo55c

rmo55c

    Advanced Contributor

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 757 posts

Posted 08 January 2018 - 09:35 AM

Craig is spot on with us having walked the trail a few years back.  Craig, Matt, Bryan, Kirby, Steph, and I all walked the middle section of trail where it passes through the creek.  What we found is that there is no suitable location to build a creek crossing on that side of trail.  We proposed what was a great idea for Blue Ribbon, but due to my moving out of the stewardship role and the superintendent changing, we never saw it through.  DNR has a very formalized process for trail review and changes.  If it is more than just a few feet of trail here or there, then they have to due to a historical survey, sustainability survey, etc. 

 

When I think about Blue Ribbon, I think of it this way:

 

Going clockwise.  The trail is pretty well sustainable all the way through the re-route done about eight years ago.  That section has bed in nicely and is quite technical (which is what you want from Blue Ribbon).  Things get bad AFTER the final left hand turn coming out of that re-route.  This is the long straight that leads up to that steep incline you mention.  The trail in this section sits about 6 inches below the ground on both sides and is a mess every spring.  This could be fixed by simply moving the trail up the hillside a little and connecting back to the existing trail near the top of that steep climb.  The trail from there is sustainable again all the way to the second park bench.  It's an easy fix that wouldn't add much trail but would be more sustainable.  A formal presentation would need to be put together for DNR to approve as its several hundred feet of trail.

 

If you are interested in this, I would suggest working with the steward, the superintendent, and a few others to re-scout the area and get agreement on what needs to be done.  From there, the superintendent can tell us what he needs from us to get approval.  It all starts with those connections.

 

The longer term solution to Blue Ribbon is to find a way to avoid that creek crossing and low lying areas permanently.  We talked about different scenarios, including the idea of a double lollipop trail.  There's a lot of unused and nicely contoured hillsides in that area that could result in a much bigger trail.  Once again, it's all about someone working with the superintendent to put together an idea, getting his buy-in, and then him running it up the chain.


Ryan
Former Castlewood Trail Steward


#4 The Krackheads

The Krackheads

    Advanced Contributor

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 864 posts

Posted 08 January 2018 - 04:26 PM

Thanks for the reply Ryan, I will reach out to the new steward and see if we can meet with the park ranger at CW.


Volunteers do not necessarily have the time; they just have the heart. ~Elizabeth Andrew

 

 

Bluffview/Rock Hollow Co-Trail Steward

 

 


#5 pilznr

pilznr

    Moderator

  • Moderator
  • 454 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 10:50 AM

If you look at the areas circled in red, they are the ones that have most of the problems. It's pretty easy to see why too, since the trail in each of those spots is fall-line, essentially cutting straight down the contours. I think almost all of them could probably be fixed with reroutes, if they were permitted by the park, with the exception of the one centered on the drainage. If I remember correctly, that is the crux of the problem that the Kirby crew found: there is no good way to get across the deep drainage, and little alternative because of the park boundary. 

 

You can see where it might be possible to implement the 2 lollipop trails that Craig mentioned, each on opposite sides of the drainage, but that wouldn't be very satisfying in terms of a loop trail.
 
cedar_bluff_perspective.png

Greensfelder Cat Herder


#6 rmo55c

rmo55c

    Advanced Contributor

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 757 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 11:12 AM

Thanks for the post - the areas circled are definitely the problem areas.  Going clockwise:

 

- the first circle is the first creek crossing.  This is usually only bad after wet periods.  It could potentially be armored.  It's one of the only good areas for crossing that creek in the entire square of Cedar Bluff and therefore probably has to stay.

- the second circle is the aforementioned straight leading to the steep climb next to the stables.  I think once you hit the top of the steep climb, it's all good there. 

- the third circle is the horrible creek crossing at the halfway point of the trail.  That circle should really be combined with the fourth circle as that circle is the climb out of the creek.

- the fifth circle is right before the smaller re-route that was done on the bluff side.

 

A few points on that:

 

- notice all the land on the east side of the left portion of the loop.  There's a TON of room to build more trail along those hillsides. 

- notice all the hillside to the east side of the right portion of the loop.  There's also a ton of unused space there as well that has great contour and features.

 

For reasons of riding a full loop and enjoying not crossing as many paths, the double lollipop would seem like a not so great idea.  But when you look at all of the unused space and how you could effectively avoid a lot of doubling back by making it big circles on little sticks (use your imagination), you could essentially add a lot of trail and still enjoy the idea of a loop(s).

 

But that's major work and would take major approval from DNR.  It would start with getting the superintendent's permission to even consider the project.  Then you would need to use the contour maps and a lot of scouting to put together a design.  There are some great control points along those hills on the east side.  Definitely a trail with more potential.


Ryan
Former Castlewood Trail Steward


#7 The Krackheads

The Krackheads

    Advanced Contributor

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 864 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 12:23 PM

Thanks for the map assistance Ron and Ryan for your input.

 

If you look at the picture and were to ride CW from the RR tracks the main area of my concern is circle 2 but issues with the other areas are well justified.  Circle 2 from the nasty downhill to essentially the creek crossing is a rutted non rideable section.. As Ryan pointed out, The trail sits well below the surrounding area and is nothing more than a super highway for water to run down. A slight tread relocation could solve a lot of the issues but a reroute of about 150 yards from base of the downhill towards the creek would be needed. The other fall line trail discussed while not optimal is at least rideable. 


Volunteers do not necessarily have the time; they just have the heart. ~Elizabeth Andrew

 

 

Bluffview/Rock Hollow Co-Trail Steward

 

 


#8 rmo55c

rmo55c

    Advanced Contributor

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 757 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 12:53 PM

You are right.  I had my circles slightly off, but same intent.  Circle 1 is actually what I labeled as circle 2 and so on.  A re-location of the tread would be nothing more than a temporary fix.  While that would be nice for the spring months when it's particularly wet, it's not going to solve anything longer term.  I look at the total space available out there and just salivate at the idea of building this whole trail the right way.  Doing it right could lead to a fairly technical trail with some flowy sections and some cool natural landmarks. 


Ryan
Former Castlewood Trail Steward


#9 pilznr

pilznr

    Moderator

  • Moderator
  • 454 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 01:44 PM

I would definitely talk to the super first, and find out what, if any, building/maintenance they would allow right now. While it would sure be nice to see that section fixed, it might not be worth the time and effort if the end result of more extensive reroutes bypassed that section completely.


Greensfelder Cat Herder





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users